My brand-new card game with Exploding Kittens is now a national bestseller! Learn more.

by

Tim Ferriss

Life Lessons from Taylor Swift, Conquering Anxiety, Coaching Teens, Career Reinvention, Supposedly Gay Bulls, Your Shadow Side, and More — Soman Chainani (#720)

Leave a comment

Topics:
Artist's rendering of Soman Chainani.
Illustration via 99designs

“If I spent my life on Instagram and TikTok, I would die because it’s just the wrong inputs to make me find what I want to do.”

— Soman Chainani

Soman Chainani (@somanc) is the bestselling author of The School for Good & Evil book series, which has sold more than 4 million copies, been translated into 35 languages across six continents, and been adapted into a major motion picture from Netflix that debuted at #1 in more than 80 countries.

Soman’s book of retold fairy tales, Beasts and Beauty, debuted on The New York Times Best Sellers List—his seventh book in a row to do so—and is slated to be a limited television series from Sony’s 3000 Pictures, with Soman writing and executive producing. Together, his books have been on the New York Times Best Sellers List for more than 50 weeks.

Soman has an A.B. in English and American Literature from Harvard University and an MFA in Film from Columbia University. He is a recipient of the Sun Valley Writers Fellowship, and he has been nominated for the Waterstone Prize for Children’s Literature and been named to the Out100.

Soman has visited more than 800 schools around the world, sharing his message that reading is the path to a better life.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement, and Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts
Listen onSpotify
Listen onOvercast
#720: Life Lessons from Taylor Swift, Conquering Anxiety, Coaching Teens, Career Reinvention, Supposedly Gay Bulls, Your Shadow Side, and More — Soman Chainani

This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. Right now, get a FREE Welcome Kit, including Vitamin D3+K2 and AG1 Flavor Sampler, when you first subscribe. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones!

This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. But a few years ago, I started using the Pod Cover, and it has transformed my sleep. Eight Sleep has launched their newest generation of the Pod: Pod 5 Ultra. It cools, it heats, and now it elevates, automatically. With the best temperature performance to date, Pod 5 Ultra ensures you and your partner stay cool in the heat and cozy warm in the cold. And now, listeners of The Tim Ferriss Show can get $350 off of the Pod 5 Ultra for a limited time! Click here to claim this deal and unlock your full potential through optimal sleep.

This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront is a financial services platform that offers services to help you save and invest your money. Right now, your cash can earn 3.30% APY—that’s the Annual Percentage Yield—with the Wealthfront Cash Account from its network of program banks. That’s 8 times more interest than a typical savings account at a bank, according to FDIC.gov as of 1/22/2026 (Wealthfront’s 3.30% APY vs. 0.39% average savings rate). Right now, for a limited time, Wealthfront is offering new clients that use my sign-up link an additional 0.75% boost over the base rate for three months, meaning you can get up to 4.05% APY, limited to $150,000 in deposits. Terms & Conditions apply. Visit Wealthfront.com/Tim to get started. 

The Cash Account, which is not a deposit account, is offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC (“WFB”), member FINRA/SIPC. Wealthfront Brokerage is not a bank. The 3.30% Base APY on cash deposits is as of January 30, 2026, is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum balance. The overall boosted rate is subject to change if the base rate decreases during the three-month promotional period. Tim Ferriss, who’s not a client, receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, which creates an incentive that results in a conflict of interest. Tim expresses his own opinions and Wealthfront does not endorse, sponsor, or promote them. This ad may not reflect the experience of other Cash Account clients, and similar outcomes are not guaranteed. Investment advisory services are provided by Wealthfront Advisers LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. Securities investments: not bank deposits, not bank-guaranteed or FDIC-insured, and may lose value. See full disclosures here. 

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

Want to hear the last time Soman Chainani was on this show? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed failed filmmaking projects, tutoring for fun over profit, habits of high performance, coming out, advice for tennis novices, the city-building aspirations of Walt Disney, preserving artistic integrity across mediums, and much more.

#220: Soman Chainani — The School for Good and Evil

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

  • Connect with Soman Chainani:

Website | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter

SHOW NOTES

  • [04:54] Who is Soman Chainani?
  • [06:01] Follow the flow.
  • [14:52] Give stories away.
  • [23:34] Your bull might be gay.
  • [30:13] Indispensable assistance.
  • [36:36] Art appreciation: Christopher Marley.
  • [40:35] Coach Alpha.
  • [50:05] Mike Regula’s Course of Action.
  • [52:31] The catharsis of being an intermittent pop star.
  • [59:20] How ketamine changed Soman’s life.
  • [1:08:09] The Shadow Self vs. The Double (refereed by Kelly Clarkson).
  • [1:13:47] Thoughts on Netflix’s Quarterback.
  • [1:17:34] Career lessons from Taylor Swift.
  • [1:24:07] Recommended reading.
  • [1:29:55] Cross-collar dating.
  • [1:35:12] The language of couples.
  • [1:36:59] Hookups.
  • [1:38:28] St. Louis vs. everywhere else.
  • [1:42:48] Dodgy allergies.
  • [1:48:41] Babysitting the fully formed.
  • [1:52:07] Parting thoughts.

MORE SOMAN CHAINANI QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“What I realized is that your conscious mind can’t actually solve problems. It can execute, it can deliver on the promise of something, but what actually is going to be the next creative force in your life, the next big decision, has to come to you naturally.”
— Soman Chainani

“When you think you can’t find what the next thing is, it’s like, what’s the next zone of discomfort?”
— Soman Chainani

“I get a lot of big ideas, and I will not write a book until I’ve had the idea for at least three years. It has to stay with me for three years because it’s going to take me that long to write, promote, take it out, and I need to be sure that it’s not going to suddenly be a short-term relationship. And it feels also like it’s timeless then. If it lasts three years, it’s made it through most of a presidential administration. It’s made it through all the ups and downs. I feel like it’s going to last.”
— Soman Chainani

“On any given night, if you’re an alcoholic or you have a drug addiction or whatever, you can just go to an AA meeting and you can have that group experience. And I felt like, why isn’t there that for teenagers? This idea that you can just go to a space and meet other teenagers on a given night and have that kind of place to talk to or experience. And yes, you can do it online. But I just think the more you get into your phone, the further you often get away from actually who you are and real connection.”
— Soman Chainani

“If I spent my life on Instagram and TikTok, I would die because it’s just the wrong inputs to make me find what I want to do.”
— Soman Chainani

“It’s almost like you have to get your conscious brain out of the way because the double, the real version of yourself that knows how to do everything, is there somewhere. And the question is, over time, can you make it so they start to integrate?”
— Soman Chainani

PEOPLE MENTIONED

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be — cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.)

10 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted

New!

Coyote

A card game by Tim Ferriss and Exploding Kittens

COYOTE is an addictive card game of hilarity, high-fives, and havoc! Learn it in minutes, and each game lasts around 10 minutes.

For ages 10 and up (though I’ve seen six-year olds play) and three or more players, think of it as group rock, paper, scissors with many surprise twists, including the ability to sabotage other players. Viral videos of COYOTE have been watched more than 250 million times, and it’s just getting started.

Unleash your trickster spirit with a game that’s simple to learn, hard to master, and delightfully different every time you play. May the wit and wiles be with you!

Learn More

Keep exploring.