Sam Kass on Reinventing Yourself and Baptism by Fire (#82)

Great lessons about not losing cool under pressure, step back and make a plan. Need systems in place to manage volume. Work inside the kitchen and beyond!

Your podcast is so good that I never listen to it in noisy environments, like in the city. I don't want any noise to displace the input. Especially liked the questions in the first half of this one. You're improving. Whenever possible, ask questions that they haven't been asked before. You can tell when the quest has to think and not just give a rehearsed answer. Seems to make them more excited. And makes a better listening experience. 🙂

Hi! I’m so impressed of your book “The Four Hour Work Week”. It has really inspired me. So, right now I’m doing a series of interviews under the theme ‘Motivation of life’ on youtube, tangling with various topics such as death, love, occupations, personal interests and every day things. Can I please interview you and use it in one of my videos in the series? Could you do that for me? /Johanna P.S. I’m doing my interviews of Skype.

Tim- First, thanks for all you do! Second, you spoke of hopes of restoring the soil. Are you familiar with Allan Savory? If not, I think you'd really dig his TED talk. I am librarian, Frank

Cool….

Living in Chicago for the last 5 years (moving to NYC next month), I agree that there are some great restaurants here. It is not surprising that Sam Kass is from Chicago. Now I want to try Frankies 457 before I move. 🙂 About wasting food, I have relocated in the USA 7 years ago and I am still shocked at the amount of food people consume and dump here. They consume much more than they need and they want to drag you down with them with statements like "You live once, just eat." Tragicomic. Indulging yourself once in a while is one thing, centering your life around eating as the main source of happiness is another. It is not just food. Americans have "buy and dispose" culture in everything. Most can't afford to buy so many new things so often (new cars, new cellphones). But that is how they define themselves in the society. If everyone in the world consumed and disposed that much, we would need the ecological services provided by 5 earths. We rent our space on this gorgeous planet, we shouldn't act like we own it. Thank you both for all the tips and inspiration in this podcast. I will try tarragon with fish, btw. 🙂 Finally, the essence of life in my burrito (what a brilliant question) is 'change'. Positive change, anything that leads to some kind of improvement- physical, mental, new places, new people, or current people who bring new ideas, information or inspiration, new projects. That is why, I've been a generalist as you call it. If I was stuck in a routine, banal life, surrounded by uninspiring people, my soul could starve to death. All the best. xx

Very insightful episode! It's always fascinating to explore the intersections between subject matters e.g. athletics, cooking and agriculture in this case. I don't know if you were referring to this particular report on topsoil erosion, but I am aware of this study on soil quality in China by the Europe China Research and Advice Network: http://eeas.europa.eu/china/docs/division_ecran/ecran_is122_paper_98_soil_quality_in_china_ying_zhang_en.pdf . I also think that David Pimental of Cornell University has done similar research into the field: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2006/03/slow-insidious-soil-erosion-threatens-human-health-and-welfare Thanks, Rainer

…Sometimes, late at night, I feel that the essence of my life IS a burrito. STUFFED BELL PEPPERS – definitely one of the easiest date-night meals.. my #1 stuffed peppers tip is to spend the extra money and buy "four-footed" peppers.. they aren't a real variety, they just have 4 little feet on the bottom instead of 3 and it is essential because with three feet your pepper probably won't stand up on its own once its soft and filled with meat and rice…

"Lacon a la gallega" is a very easy spanish plate. Just steam cook potatoes in big chunks in the pressure cooker (steamed makes the potato flavour amazing), heat up some lacon (spanish sweet cooked ham, not the jamón serrano) and put the potatoes on the plate, salt them with some himalayan salt add the ham on top. Then finish with geneous olive oil and sprinkling sweet paprika on top. Delicious, very fast and simple to cook. Another recipe that's really easy, is avocado toast with anchovies, salt and olive oil. For someone to really impress me, they would need to make great fried eggs, with chorizo and french fries home style. Oh and having spelt/rye fresh bread with organic butter, my hero. Or a great spanish tortilla.

I'm really disappointed with this podcast. Sam Kass is scatterbrained and does not seem to be very talented. What has he really impacted or accomplished? What does he really know? He regurgitated that there's millions of bacteria in your gut, to eat fruit and vegetables everyday, conserve topsoil, etc. It sounds like he is repeating tips r facts that Tim said or taught. What's Sam Kass' formal nutrition background? He altered our school cafeterias' standards without having any food, nutrition, or medical expertise. Yeah, kids (and everyone) should eat more veggies. However, their food should be edible, too. He says he came from humble roots but grew up in a ritzy Chicago neighborhood, went to prep school, and hobnobbed with the Obamas.. Typical limousine liberal.

Another great show Tim!! There's always so much being discussed. Love and appreciate show notes.

The easiest, most well-liked meal I've ever used to impress dates is French Toast. This is something I actually experimented with. If I did something that was more expensive and more extravagant, I generally framed the relationship to be the same way. If I did something typical, then I set myself up to seem like a repetition of the past. This particular dish has the added bonus (besides being simple to make and just about everyone loving) of taking people back to their childhood and almost instantly creating deeper rapport. Many of us started out loving breakfast foods as kids and generally weren't too impressed by the Adult Meals. French Toast is the 2 ft. putt.

Simple recipe to impress a date? Strawberry and fig glazed tenderloin. Sear a pork tenderloin on both sides to lock in the moisture. Mix together equal parts of fig and strawberry preserves and smother the tenderloin. Bake until internal temp hits 155. Let rest to 160-165. Serve with a side of green beans with almonds and a touch of brown sugar. Slow carb? Nope! Quick, easy, and always a home run? Check!

Tim, I just spent the last few days travelling back and forth across the continent with lots of time on planes and in airports to catch up on podcasts. I listened to your podcast for about 30 solid hours, including listening to some for the 5th time (Chris Sacca, Peter Diamandis, Rolf Potts). Each time I learn something new. My Evernote is full of ideas. I do, however, hear your voice in my sleep now! You are a true inspiration. I read your book (4 Hour Work Week) and promptly quit my corporate job (they bought our company 6 months prior so that helped with the decision financially) and at 40 took off on a mini-retirement. I am now back, and looking for my moon shot. 10x not 10%. With your help I am taking some time to upgrade my OS (this is my lead domino), install 3 new skills apps (and 2 personal apps), and then will start or join a mission-based organization and solve a big problem. I will, however, as Rolf Pott's suggested on your show, manage success and consider time and location freedom considerations in addition to financial (in that order of priority). Thanks for being you, and doing what you do. Pura vida. Dan

Tim–thanks for yet another fascinating podcast. Also, I'd like to thank you for making the transcripts available. I know it's old fashioned, but I often prefer (and better absorb) information in written form. Especially for times such as my upcoming first round of international flights. Thank you for thinking of the little, even if old school, details for your audience 🙂 Now to answer your question! If I'm not grilling up a steak, I default to the Moules Marinière with Fennel (from The Four Hour Chef). I grew up with an abnormally carnivorous family, so flawless grilling is in my blood. However, not a single person fails to be impressed by the deceptively "fancy" looking Moules Marinière. I add my own twist to it by including what an outsider may consider an excessive amount of extra garlic (sound familiar?) and a bit more olive oil and wine. (To this day I have yet to have someone complain about this–I'm going to consider it a winner.) I had never actually eaten mussels until I read and followed the lessons in The Four Hour Chef. After trying Moules Marinière, I was hooked! And it couldn't have come at a better time in my life–I learned just months before I moved to the decadent and debauched city of New Orleans… All of my newfound Nola neighbors, friends, and dates lauded my ability to make a French seafood dish for get-togethers. Heck, one night fun Mardi Gras night I threw it together to help sober up the group–to those who think it sounds complicated, I assure you it's not! But it does give you the awesome "fancy chef" street cred 🙂 So again, thank you Tim. If you're not expanding my brain and aspirations, you're giving me the tools to add to my skill set. Santè!

Another group pleaser, now that I'm thinking about it… Is a recipe a good friend passed onto me in college. He was a Puerto Rican growing up in a low-income neighborhood in New York. We were lucky to meet one another at a film school in Arizona 🙂 Despite having little of his own, he was able to invite groups of friends over once or twice a month and cook this amazing Garlic Stuffed and Smothered Pork Shoulder Roast, with friend plantains and slices of avocado. We'd run friendly poker tournaments while drinking Corona's or Red Stripe, and arguing about film and special effects late into the night. This meal is unpretentious but exploding with flavor. Here's the recipe, if anyone gets a hankering! GEAR: – Roasting Pan With Rack – Knife – Cutting Board – Large Bowl – Blender or food processor or bullet – Tin Foil – Cast Iron Skillet or saute pan (whatever you have will probably work) – Silicone Spatula – Meat Thermometer (optional, if you feel you need it) INGREDIENTS: – Sea Salt or Himalayan Rock Salt (lots of it) – Pork Shoulder Roast or Pork Butt Roast – 10-15 Heads of Garlic (this is not a joke!) – Olive Oil – White Wine Vinegar – Dried Oregano – Plantains (the darker the peel, the better; half a plantain for every person at the meal) – Coconut Oil – Avocados (half an avocado for each person at the meal) – 1 Lemon PREP: The day before (if possible, though this is not required), wash and dry your pork roast, and then salt it generously. You think you've used too much salt. I promise you haven't. Place in a bowl and cover overnight in the fridge. The day of, you'll want to peel all of your garlic and set half of it aside. Then put the remaining half of the peeled garlic, 1 parts olive oil (think 2-3 TBSP), 1.5 parts white wine vinegar, and two 3 finger pinches of oregano into a blender or food processor or bullet. Pulse until it's a puree. It doesn't have to be perfectly consistent, but you do want it to emulsify (it will be white). This is your marinade. Now, take your brined (salted) pork roast out of the fridge, and allow to get to room temperature. It's time to release your inner psycho. Take your knife and start poking garlic-clove sized holes all over the pork–yes, even the fatty side. Then take the garlic you set aside a moment ago, and begin to fill your knife holes. Don't be stingy! Halve and pit your avocados, cut into moon slices as thick as you desire, and then sprinkle a little lemon and salt. Put in the fridge for now. Peel and slice your plantains into rounds. Put into the fridge for now. PICKUP: Preheat your oven to 475º F. Place your garlic-studded roast onto the roasting rack of your roasting pan, fat side up. Take your marinade and smother the garlic. Don't be scared to use it all–go crazy. You'll thank me later. Sprinkle a little salt on top. Cook the marinated roast, uncovered, for 45 minutes. After the 45 minutes, lower your oven to 350º F, and create a tinfoil "tent" over the roasting pan. Cook the roast 20 minutes for every pound. When you're about 20 minutes from your roast finishing, pull your avocados and plantains from the fridge. Let your avocados rest and come to room temperature. Take your cast iron skillet, and put about 1-2 tablespoons of coconut oil in it. Heat your stove top to Medium-High, and once the oil is sizzling, take your plantains and gently place them one by one into the oil. Don't overcrowd your skillet, do it in batches if you need to. Take your spatula after about 1 minute and "smash" the slices down a little. Flip after one side has cooked for 2 minutes. The goal is get them slightly caramelized (in other words, the edges browned). Once they've cooked, transfer them onto a paper towel. Once the time is up on your roast (or it reaches an internal temperature of 160º F), you want to remove it from the oven, and take the tin foil tent off. Let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Then place on a platter or large plate, and carve it up like you would a turkey. PLATING: This is best served buffet style. Place the plate with your fried plantains, the plate with your sliced avocado slices, and your platter of finished pork roast… And let people serve themselves. They'll swear they can only take 1 serving, and then end up getting thirds. Get ready for a flavorgasm!

Hi Tim, i'm from south america, i'm following you since almost a 6 months ago and really appreciate your work. Here are a growing community of startups leading by governance policies, i'm an active member, i think if i had read your books before, the scenario for me (and the community) will be a little more easy. I read your blog constantly and here are a lot of people that they will be interested in it, for sure, but they didn't speak english. I would really like translate your material and start publish here, always appointing you as the creator of all, and of course no ads and no personal rendering. I really enjoy the spanish version of 4HWW but it's not all good, the spanish (country) speaking of the language are very different of the latin spanish speaking. The latin spanish is the same for all south america, including other countries like Mexico, Puerto Rico and all "El Caribe". You can let me know if your are interested and i'll start working immediately translate the relevant topic. I would like contact you trough email but i haven't, please get free to erase this comment once your read.

I have learned from this podcast the important lesson of intelligent working under pressure……of how not to lose head and follow a sistem…great podcast with a great guest!

Hi Tim, I live in France, and I am a great fan of your podcasts and TV show – and we are many such fans here. However, unless I'm mistaken, I think your TV show can't be accessed from here. Any plans to bring it here ? (Oh, and btw : any plans to come to France to meet your numerous devotees ? :D)

I'll just leave this here. Impress-a-girl Risotto: “Seems very fancy and impressive, but isn’t that hard.” – Sam Kass “Hard to make perfect, but it’s….easy to make good.” – Sam Kass and Tim Ferriss. 1) Dice onion up (or shallot). Real small. Like a mince. 2) Heat up olive oil in pot before adding onions. 3) Bring a stock to boil in separate pot. Keep that warm. 4) Throw in pot with some olive oil. 5) Cook onion (or shallot) down. Don’t let it change color/caramelize. 6) Cook rice in onions and olive oil pot. ~1 cup of rice for two people. 7) Add a little (a couple splashes) white wine, let it evaporate. To know if the alcohol is burned off, smell it. If your nose burns, there’s still alcohol in there. It should be essentially dry before you add stock. 8) Slowly add stock of your choice as you go, until rice is al dente (not too mushy), maintaining a nice uncovered simmer. 9) Add any meat you want. 10) When rice is done. Finish with some butter, a little olive oil, and Parmesan cheese. Give it a quick stir. Let it rest for a minute. “It’ll kind of come together” 11) Plate it. Tips: DO use wooden spoon (to avoid damaging rice). DO use Arborio rice. DON’T add anything cold to the concoction. (If you run out of stock you can add heated water) DON’T want it to be runny or just hold up in dry ball. “It should feel like it’s got a little sauce, but it’s not saucy.” DO consider using small scallops, which you can add at the near end (with butter, olive oil, and cheese). Sam recommends, for seafood risotto with shrimp and scallops, to use a lot lemon zest, a bit of lemon juice, and some tarragon. “That one will impress any lady!”

One of the best episodes in a while, Tim. Sam was super interesting. Thanks for sharing. A recipe I have cooked that has impressed my wife and guests is Ina Garten’s roast chicken. Love it so much! http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ina-garten/engagement-roast-chicken-recipe.html

One simple meal that impresses dates or dinner guests are four cheese stuffed turkey burgers or stuffed pork chops. The cheese is always blue cheese mixed with feta and really any sort of cheese you want. Sometimes I'm lazy and pick up a four cheese mix. Spices are usually crushed red pepper, cayenne pepper, basil, sea salt. I love the blue cheese flavor paired with the heat from the cayenne and red pepper. Simple, easy to make, and a ton of room for experimenting with spices and cheese. Side dishes are usually vegetables (depends on the season). Sometimes sweet potato fries. As a side note, I loved the comment at the end about being 'engaged.' Several fantastic takeaways from this episode!

Tim mentioned the Dirty Dozen in this podcast – after doing a bit o research I noticed that it isn't necessarily the same foods that are contaminated in different parts of the world. [Moderator: link removed]

I'm usually not a fan of podcasts (love to read articles, even if pretty long), but these are insightful and fun. Yet another great story to think about.

I want to see Just Eat It, but it's not coming anywhere near where I live. And I have no current plans to visit Canada. Sadness. It looks wonderful!

Hey Tim the posture mood benefits you noticed when sitting upright are real and the basis for my startup, the stand desk and laptop case in one for on the go work…coffeeshops, airport lounges etc… Would love to send one if you're interested.

It truly doesn't take much to be impressive. For a date night, I would opt for a Caesar Salad and make the dressing from scratch- it makes a huge difference and is really delicious (dijon, lemon, anchovies, parmesan!!!). Plus, you can spruce it up with whatever is in season. Also, just wanted to mention another amazing show that is on Netflix called "Chef's Table". For anyone who enjoys food you will want to binge-watch every episode (sadly there are only 6). The one on Dan Barber discusses some of the sustainability issues that were brought up here. Plus, Dan makes a whole wheat croissant that would be perfect for a cheat day 🙂

What a great show you have! I have learned a lot. This truly inspires me! Thank you!

Great pod cast! I love when you do these with people like this that you are pretty comfortable it. It sounded a lot like a conversation. I felt like I was joining you guys for a drink. All around great one Tim. Thank you!

Sam references "really good vinegar" – what is really good vinegar – can you follow up with some suggestions?

I'm really enjoying the podcasts, tremendous insights and information. My question is this : given Sam's passion for baseball and cooking, what solutions or thoughts could you provide to solve a common challenge in professional baseball : good nutrition during the season while traveling around the country. The players face tons of challenges – inconsistent meal timing, poor food choices, potential food safety issues, excessive availability of convenience food options…this list could keep going. Any insights would be appreciated.

I'm glad Sam mentioned the doc Just Eat it. I saw when it first came out, it's a couple from Vancouver where I am from. I hope you watch it Tim. But I was a little put off that Sam doesn't think organic or GMO is a bigger deal than it is. Have you researched this very much Tim? I would suggest looking into Jeffrey Smith's work, one of his books being Seeds of Deception. Great podcast keep it up thanks!

Tim Ferriss, your podcasts are varied and consistently captivating. Sam ( an athlete who can cook?!) was a treat- I appreciate your skillful interviews and enjoy them immensely. What a wide range of topics you cover but the foibles of modern agriculture and food production and implications -what a surprising and critical topic! The issues of desertification and loss of topsoil ( Allan Savory has done work all over the world on this issue in the face of accepted practices and derision from many despite incredible landscape rejuvenation) and food as medicine hopefully will see another podcast or two? Government subsidies in agriculture, make me nervous though-their unintended consequences seem to mostly outweigh any original good intention. We have millions of acres of CRP – which has resulted in ground that is dying and deteriorating at a huge cost to the taxpayer and landscape health and as Sam noted, the entrenched politics make it very difficult to adapt and change. The "Organic" designation itself has become a somewhat meaningless description after it was adapted by industry to include a wide variety of practices it was never intended to encompass. Farmers like Joel Salatin, a captivating entrepreneur, of Virginia suggests we go 'beyond organic'. He has an amazing model for a new agricultural paradigm . Thank you again for a great podcast-your generation gives me hope that someone is paying attention-your Mom must be so proud…!

I'm not sure why Sam Kass recommends canola oil – most of the canola in North America is a GMO product.

Your mention of Chronic Sinusitus and nasal rinses has completely changed my life in a week. The second you mentioned it I knew I had the same thing, just never realized a constantly stuffed (not runny) nose was actually a condition and hadn't looked into it. I picked up a neti pot and just do a saline rinse in the morning and evening which helps so much and I love that it's not a medication. Do you have any other tips to help? Thank you and I owe you big time

I was wondering if you could write down the herbs and spices mentioned in the episode as those Sam would choose. With english as a secondary language Im not familiar with all the english names, and would like to check them out. The spelling would help a lot so I can find out what they are called in my native language.

I can't help myself, at 1:27:30 "Common mistakes when Grilling", Sam mentioned two of the biggest mistakes are: 1) grill not hot enough and 2) not leaving the food alone to cook. I am an amateur outdoor cooker, after years of research and testing addressing these two items hands down caused my biggest leaps in improvement. It went from people being polite and saying my food was good, but never asking for seconds or asking if they could take some home. To now where I have to buy double the amount of meat to feed the same amount of people and people being disappointed in not being able to take leftovers. The only other improvement which holds equal weight is never use 5 ingredients where three will do, in other words keep it simple and let the quality of the meat speak for its self. For those aspiring outdoor cooks who want to improve cooking over flame, I highly recommend: Francis Mallman's "Seven Fires: Grilling the Argentine Way" Also check him out on the Netflix's Series "Chef's Table". (In fact check out the entire series, its pretty good) I also recommend Aaron Franklin's book "Franklin Barbecue: A Meat-Smoking Manifesto", but then again I'm a fan boy so I may be bias. Here in Texas on our local PBS station Aaron has a TV show which is pretty awesome. You can also find it online here . Yotam Ottolenghi's book "Jerusalem: A Cookbook" is beautiful and amazing. There's a pretty good piece on him, in the America's Test Kitchen Podcast. Also, Tim thanks for everything you do. 4H workeeek helped push me to get off my ass and follow my dream into Law School 6 years ago. After going through the evening program for 4.5 years while also working a full-time job with a family, I don't regret it at all. Thanks, -Michael

Absolutely. Sam's lessons apply in many areas of life. A fast-paced kitchen just exaggerates the immediate stakes 🙂

Thanks, Sam. I had a lot of fun with this one.

Couldn't agree more. I listened to this podcast and couldn't help but think "how the heck did this guy land a job in the White House?" Probably typical Chicago/Obama cronyism. He lost me when he recommended cooking with canola oil.

Allan Savory would be a great interview – Seems to be under the radar but has had a radical impact on how we look at land health